Shutter vibration issues?

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Diane Miller
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Joined: 04.03.2015 06:39

Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Diane Miller »

I'd like to use HR for Astrophotography, using very long focal lengths (400-600mm). The camera is on a star tracking mount and is subject to vibrations that can give slightly oval-shaped stars. (The tracking is steady – shutter vibration is the concern.)

I'm using a Canon 7D Mk II, set to Enable MLU. Exposures are typically 30 sec at ISO 1600 and f/5.6 or less. I would shoot a series of 40-60 exposures, using the Time Lapse function, which will be processed in special software (Nebulosity or others) to remove noise and give a clean image.

HR is wonderful for focusing, but may have an issue with shutter vibration.

If I shoot a series with the Canon Intervalometer, there is only a very faint shutter noise when the exposure is started, and I can set a delay after the shutter re-cocks before the next exposure. But with HR there is a considerably louder noise as the shutter fires, which I'm concerned will cause camera shake. (It could shake for several seconds with the mount it is on.) The noise isn't mirror slap -- looking into the lens confirms that the mirror is up -- you can't see the reverse view. The mirror came up when the camera was recognized. So it appears to be a different sound of the shutter cocking.

Just curious what is happening. I can’t test for any difference in actual star shots until the moon is a little darker.
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

The only idea I have is silent release mode. Does 7D Mk II have it? Can it be turned off and on independently of other settings?
Diane Miller
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Diane Miller »

Stas Yatsenko wrote:The only idea I have is silent release mode. Does 7D Mk II have it? Can it be turned off and on independently of other settings?
It does, selected in the small LCD on top of the camera. It makes the noises a little less but doesn't change the fundamental differences with the loudness and sequence of noises the intervalometer makes. Same results with the 5D3.
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

Can you try Canon EOS Utility and see if shoots in a "loud" or "quiet" way?
Diane Miller
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Diane Miller »

Had to find the disk and install it. Setting the camera to MLU Enable, EU behaves like the IV -- the first shutter activation raises the mirror (louder thunk) and the second one, that fires the shutter is quieter. When the shutter closes there is the louder thunk again as the mirror goes back down. (Confirmed visually.) So it's louder thunk, quieter thunk, louder thunk.

But with HR (just tried it again with the camera on the desk in the same spot, same settings and hookup, just closed EU and started HR), the mirror goes up on camera recognition and stays up. Shooting a time lapse, there is a louder thunk that starts the exposure, and two thunks when it ends, all about the same loudness and all louder than the shutter opening when using EU or the IV.
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

We'll see if the same happens with our 6D. If it does, we might be able to do something.
Diane Miller
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Diane Miller »

Hope so!! It is the same with my 5D3 and I'm sure it is causing some camera shake.

Lay the camera down on a table to amplify the sound.

Keep me posted!
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

I've investigated the matter, and am not sure if I managed to reproduce the effect you've described or not (with our Canon 6D). If I didn't, then it's something new to 7D Mark II.
Here's what I see / hear in the following scenarios.
1. Live view is OFF.
- EOS Utility: first shutter button press raises the mirror - relatively quiet sound. The second press takes the photo: shutter opens (loud complex sound), exposure, shutter closes (loud complex sound), mirror closes (loud sound).
- Helicon Remote: same, except the exposure is done by timer rather than by manual second press of the button.

2. Live view is ON.
- EOS Utility: same as without live view, except the mirror doesn't ever move, but the shutter closes and opens back (triggers twice instead of once). Loud shutter closing - Loud shutter opening - exposure. This is regardles of MLU, since live view efectively is MLU.
- Helicon Remote: exactly the same.
mrose
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by mrose »

Stas, the LV sequence is the same on my Nikon D610. I had always been curious about the four "clunks" for each exposure before this post. I recorded the sequence of sounds and looked at the waveshape some time ago. The noise is made worse by the lens aperture opening fully & closing to the set f/ each time the shutter closes & opens.
Diane Miller
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Diane Miller »

I hadn't though about noise from the aperture. But for me there is a noticeable difference between HR and just using thee Canon Intervalometer -- the latter is quieter and for astrophotography makes noticeably less shake, which causes light but unacceptable streaking of stars. Same for the Canon 7D2 and 5D3.

The intervalometer is doing something different from HR or EOS Utility.
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Stas Yatsenko
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Stas Yatsenko »

One important thing to note: to get exactly the same behavior from Helicon Remote as EOS Utility, you have to go to the settings -> Shooting and set "Activate live view when taking a shot" to "No". Then, when taking a shot with MLU turned on, you'll hear the quiet(ish) sound of the mirror going up - MLU delay - loud shutter sounds. Now that I think about it, that setting was probably what you were missing. Give it a try.
Diane Miller
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Re: Shutter vibration issues?

Post by Diane Miller »

Had time to try it and yes, I did have that setting wrong. Apologies -- it now seems to give a quieter noise when the shutter opens. Will try it with stars on the Astrotrac mount tonight.
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